DNC Board Meeting
September 6th, 2012
Attendees: Ivan D, Jacek L, Herb V, Kelvin B, Ann L, Roland C,
Joe L, James O, Dave M, Dave D, Jenn A
The mood is quiet, calm and suspensful.
6:12pm - We have quorum! Hurray! 8 board members and 11 people total
Tentative Agenda
1) Opening
a - intros
b - protocols, cleanup
2) Announcements and endorsements
3) DNC Board Business
a - Wendy's Leave
b - Conflict Resolution
c - DNC and CCAP
d - AGM
4) Committee Reports
a - Street Market
b - LAPP
c - Copwatch
d - Shelter
e - DNFD
5) General Meeting
a - September meeting
b - Future meetings
At approximately 6:22pm, the oven starts squalking to let us know that
the chicken is ready.
Herb Chairs
6:37 Kelvin does the opening
Check in
Agenda adopted as read. Motion by Kelvin, seconded by Joe, motion carries
2. Announcements
Social Housing Coalition
Ivan - Starting Social Housing coalition to make social housing an
election issue
Oportunity to build coalitions outside of DTES.
First meeting is Sep 12, 7pm in Carnegie Theatre.
Ann - who will be the representative
Ivan - Harold wants to be the representative, it will be a one meeting a month
kind of thing. Jean will likely be the chair with another chair from outside the
neighbourhood
Ivan - simple demand that province build social housing, and proper
rent controls
Ann - Issue is that CCAP had put together another thing like this
called 'City Wide'.
Ann - If we don't endorse it, would it matter?
Ivan - demand is that social housing be controlled by the RTA
Motion to attend the meeting next week with Harold as representative
Joe makes motion, Kelvin seconds, motion carries
Women's Housing March
Ann - there is a better list of demands than last year
Herb - also they want to do street theatre
Ann - they have requested that DNC be on their poster
Ivan - moves to endorse the march
Motion carries
Pipelines Forum
Ivan - we got an email asking to endorse this, it is women from various
places talking about the impact of pipelines
Jenn moves to endorse, Kelvin seconds, motion carries
Drug War Stops Here
Dave D - Community dialog around drug prohibition. Panel presentations,
Debrah peterson small, sessions on impact of drug war on women, people
of color,
and theatre to get at issues of prohibition. Its in a big tent in
oppenheimer park
Ann - VANDU has good involvement, to make sure that drug users are well
represented.
Dave D - event is organized by VANDU, WAHRS and the end prohibition project
LAPP - What we are hearing event
Jamie R arrives
Herb - we are gathering so much data, but we also might get drowned out
and easy for them to cherry pick and ignore our stuff. It is important
that we show up and get our issues represented.
3) DNC Board Business
a - Wendy's Leave
Ivan - Wendy had a minor heart attack and was hospitalized. She has Syndrome X.
It occures in younger women in high stress situations. The only way to treat it
is to go into a zero stress environment. She is asking for a leave of absence
from CCAP, the LAPP, and all organizing work. Herb suggested that we get a giant
card.
Ivan - we are going to have to decide who is the primary person for the LAPP.
Ann - can't we just say it is Herb and Ivan now?
Ann - we should get something for her that deeply acknowleges the work that
she has done
Kelvin - we might be able to get some artists to do a special drawing. I bet
that something she does not expect is to have a roast. We could give her a
bon voyage that she deserves.
b - Conflict Resolution Process
Ivan - there are two conflict resolution processes that are underway. One
was between Roland and Jenn. The original committee was Ivan, Tami, and Wendy.
The process is that we create a sub-committee and try to resolve it by talking
to each of the people. If that fails then the committee comes back to the board
with recommendations. The subjects have a right to respond. The board then has
a chance to resolve it, perhaps through a vote. This would then go to
the general
membership. It begins with confidentiality, and then goes through accountability
to reduce gossip and make sure that everyone is in a safe environment. Wendy and
Tami could not participate. I did interviews with both of them. I
think that the
process has failed. That report should be given in writing. I will give notice
that the report will be delivered at the next board meeting.
The second conflict resolution is between Wendy and Roland. Wendy has requested
a conflict resolution with Roland. The board needs to select a
committee to resolve
this. Wendy has requested that I (Ivan) is on the committee.
Ann - I volunteer to be on the committee
Ivan - I move that there be a motion to strike the committee
Motion carries - one abstention - Roland
c - Relationship between DNC and CCAP
Jacek - we asked for this. The problem with CCAP started a few months
ago. When CCAP
talks to the City, what position does CCAP take? We passed a
resolution on First United.
If I remember, they all voted for it. The very next day when I went to
the CCAP meeting
and the motion was rejected. I talked to Wendy and she said that she
talked to BC housing
and First United, this is when we realized that she never came back to
the DNC, and we
wanted to know if CCAP is talking to people about shelters, then we
don't know what
position that they are taking.
Ann - previously it was said that it was said that just because people
at CCAP have
jobs they have more power, but it is not just that. Since CCAP and DNC
have such
similar issues and are meshed, then it is good to have it be extremely
clear what
the differences are. We need to do a process to find out how each
organization works
then we can unravel what the difficulties are. CCAP is much more
focussed on housing.
Ann - I would like us to make a motion to come back to the board to define where
DNC begins and CCAP ends.
Joe - I'm curious to find out where CCAP is going with Wendy gone.
Ivan - we are going to be doing all the same things as before, except
it is all on me.
CCAP and DNC are different organizations, and we can never prevent
other organizations
from speaking to the city
Ann - Motion to create a dispute resolution process between CCAP between the DNC
Ann - I am volunteering to be on the committee to resolve the issue
Ivan - I still don't understand the issue - it is not a specific enough motion
Ann - I will bring back a process to the next board meeting
Ann - the wording specific - it is to define the commonality between
CCAP and the DNC
Jenn moves, Jamie seconds
Motion Carries
d - Annual General Meeting
Ivan - I wanted the AGM on the Agenda and it is only two meetings away
Ivan - stike a motion to create an AGM committee
consisting of Ann, Herb, Ivan, Jamie, Kelvin volunteer to be on the
AGM committee
Jamie moves, Ann seconds, motion carries.
Committee Reports
IVan - expounds the details of board governance and throws a tantrum
about the street market
and says that Roland is trying to hyjack the process and that Roland
is anti-democratic and
is incredibly angry that Roland did not prepare a proper presentation
and throws papers and
yells and screams and walks out of the meeting.
Ann - lets go on with the agenda
Herb - we can't continue without talking about the market
Roland - I give my best pitch for reasonability.
Ivan comes back to the meeting
Ivan reads the email from Wendy in excruciating detail. He reads the
document from
the city along with each point from Wendy like it is a gothic novel.
Ann - what has happened is that Wendy has waited so long to review a
street market
meeting, and did not tell any of this to the street market committee
Ann - I would change the word "encourage" to "invite".
Ann - the strategy voiced at the street market meeting is one of
practicality. We intend
to pursue this direction with the city for convenience and for a
chance to ease the
operational problems with the market.
Ann - we are not even sure if the city is tricking us, or whether they
will give us
permits at all. 62 could act as a base, for storage, and for space for the DNC.
Motion on the floor
- to move to remove point 3, and bullet point 4
- also to delete point 4, and bullet point 5
Ann - is there a seconder
Kelvin seconds the motion
All in favor - three in favor
All against - two against
Three abstentions
Ann - if that trumps the street market committee, then this is a sham
Ivan - normally we don't count votes that are contentious
I stopped taking minutes at this point
Lots of meeting took place, all may end up in the ether.
Thursday, 6 September 2012
Thursday, 30 August 2012
DNC Board Meeting - August 30th, 2012
Attendees: Roland, Jacek, Jenn, James, Ann
Agenda
Review of previous meeting
Approval of minutes
Committee Reports
CoHS
St. Mkt.
Copwatch
James does opening
Review of previous meeting
Shelter Committee Report
Jacek - we need quorum to talk about the problem with CCAP
Roland - we talked to Aiyanas about the CCAP DNC issue regarding
first united today and he offered to help adjudicate the difficulty
James - I know someone who used to work at 1U and he might be able
to tell us what their real policies were, etc...
Roland - We talked to WAHRS and Tuesday group and are planning
a joint action to highlight the terrible policy of the shelter
shuffle within 6 weeks or so
Jenn - at the lookout policies changed from day to day or who
was on duty. they would make up the rules as they go. some days
they would put out food at night, some days we wouldn't be
allowed to. It all depended on who was at work that day.
James - that was the biggest complaint at 1U as well, the rules
would always depend on who was on duty.
Jenn - it was a general thing that if you were dealing with
a resident that was nice, you could give them extra leeway.
If people were fighting for their rights, they would just find
a way to kick them out. If a person was trouble, they could
treat them whatever way they wanted.
Jacek - so this is terrible for people with addictions or other
barriers
Jenn - yes, marcus would do this all the time. he would use
people's addictions against them and push their buttons.
James - some staff just love to argue and provoke
Jacek - when you were working, did you guys review complaints at all?
Jenn - that was the job of the supervisor. People would complain,
but they would tell people that they would lose their beds
if they compained. I was working at 1U but I had a contract at
lookout, I was a shit disturber so I would help people fill
out complaints.
Jacek - what happened to the complaints?
Jenn - sometimes the complaints would not make it to the boss
because other staff would just put it in the garbage. This
happened all the time, if you were afraid that some staff was
going to lose their job, you could just throw the complaint
into the trash. I say this happen all the time. I got in
trouble for helping residents that wanted to fill out a
complaint. The other staff would harass me for doing this.
Diane taylor went out to Ontario when pickton got caught. I
found out that she was staying at the yukon, and I said that
this was a danger, but they didn't care. I had a big problem
with them letting sex offenders stay there as well. The
trouble is that they were not consistent. sometimes sex
offenders could stay, sometimes they could not.
Copwatch
Jenn - whole blog on RCMP ratting out bad people, RCMP used
their police powers to go after this red alliance blog guy.
They harassed him. He went to BCCLA. Ann got a copy of the
warrant they used.
Ann - I just got an email saying that every wednesday there
is a sister watch meeting at the ab. policing center. They
are trying to divide people by calling copwatch a quasi-
terrorist group
Jenn - my good news is that we got another investigation into
a bad cop for abuse of authority. It is murray brown, and maybe
steve addison. They hurt Julie by slamming her into a cruiser.
Jenn - two cops said they did not want to meet with me until
they are treated with more respect.
Jenn - the meetings have accomplished nothing, they lied to
us. I don't think we should meet with the police any more.
Jenn - the purpose of the meetings was to make the higher ups
aware of what the police are doing, but nothing changed.
Jacek - they never dropped my ticket so I'm going to court.
James - the good issue is the crack pipes, to show that they
are not consistent on harm reduction. I had a cop say right
to my face that they could break pipes any time they wanted
because it was enabling drug use.
Jenn - do you guys agree that we don't meet with the police
until they actually do what they say they will do.
Jenn - I had a cop come up to me and said "I saw what you
wrote about me on facebook". someone is circulating what
we are writing about them around their office. It is concerning.
Jacek - this should be considered retaliation. they should not
be allowed to retaliate.
Jenn - the whole reason that I brought this up is for people's
safety. We should be prepared for retaliation.
Roland - it is the online equivalent of a trouble maker breaking
windows at a peaceful rally.
Street Market
James - I have some great photos of the market
Roland - I just got an email from Cael Hopwood that the address
was wrong on our insurance form. I'm hoping this is not a sign
of their willingness to deal with us honestly.
Ann - Pigeon park is a drinking centre now much more than before.
this is why we need the hose to move people around a bit.
James - carnegie may have the bayonette fitting that we need.
Ann - we have the Saturday meeting at VANDU at 2pm
Ann - 62 would be a good space for meetings, we lost the dodsons.
Its not ideal, but it would be a start.
Jacek - we could have an office no problem.
Ann - I find that wendy is softening because it would be space
for DNC.
Ann - the space is for housing, but there is no model built
and there is no plan that I know of
Vending Ticket campaign
James - what happens is that people get called into court
and then they are forced to sign something like a red zone
or something like that.
Ann - in the old days it made a little bit of sense if someone
had tuberculosis they should not spit where people walk because
you would track it into your house, but that is why it was ok
if you did it into the street where the gutters are.
General Meeting Discussion
Ann - we told Irwin that we postponed the August meeting, lets have it
at W2 on September 8th.
General Agreement
Informal closing
Agenda
Review of previous meeting
Approval of minutes
Committee Reports
CoHS
St. Mkt.
Copwatch
James does opening
Review of previous meeting
Shelter Committee Report
Jacek - we need quorum to talk about the problem with CCAP
Roland - we talked to Aiyanas about the CCAP DNC issue regarding
first united today and he offered to help adjudicate the difficulty
James - I know someone who used to work at 1U and he might be able
to tell us what their real policies were, etc...
Roland - We talked to WAHRS and Tuesday group and are planning
a joint action to highlight the terrible policy of the shelter
shuffle within 6 weeks or so
Jenn - at the lookout policies changed from day to day or who
was on duty. they would make up the rules as they go. some days
they would put out food at night, some days we wouldn't be
allowed to. It all depended on who was at work that day.
James - that was the biggest complaint at 1U as well, the rules
would always depend on who was on duty.
Jenn - it was a general thing that if you were dealing with
a resident that was nice, you could give them extra leeway.
If people were fighting for their rights, they would just find
a way to kick them out. If a person was trouble, they could
treat them whatever way they wanted.
Jacek - so this is terrible for people with addictions or other
barriers
Jenn - yes, marcus would do this all the time. he would use
people's addictions against them and push their buttons.
James - some staff just love to argue and provoke
Jacek - when you were working, did you guys review complaints at all?
Jenn - that was the job of the supervisor. People would complain,
but they would tell people that they would lose their beds
if they compained. I was working at 1U but I had a contract at
lookout, I was a shit disturber so I would help people fill
out complaints.
Jacek - what happened to the complaints?
Jenn - sometimes the complaints would not make it to the boss
because other staff would just put it in the garbage. This
happened all the time, if you were afraid that some staff was
going to lose their job, you could just throw the complaint
into the trash. I say this happen all the time. I got in
trouble for helping residents that wanted to fill out a
complaint. The other staff would harass me for doing this.
Diane taylor went out to Ontario when pickton got caught. I
found out that she was staying at the yukon, and I said that
this was a danger, but they didn't care. I had a big problem
with them letting sex offenders stay there as well. The
trouble is that they were not consistent. sometimes sex
offenders could stay, sometimes they could not.
Copwatch
Jenn - whole blog on RCMP ratting out bad people, RCMP used
their police powers to go after this red alliance blog guy.
They harassed him. He went to BCCLA. Ann got a copy of the
warrant they used.
Ann - I just got an email saying that every wednesday there
is a sister watch meeting at the ab. policing center. They
are trying to divide people by calling copwatch a quasi-
terrorist group
Jenn - my good news is that we got another investigation into
a bad cop for abuse of authority. It is murray brown, and maybe
steve addison. They hurt Julie by slamming her into a cruiser.
Jenn - two cops said they did not want to meet with me until
they are treated with more respect.
Jenn - the meetings have accomplished nothing, they lied to
us. I don't think we should meet with the police any more.
Jenn - the purpose of the meetings was to make the higher ups
aware of what the police are doing, but nothing changed.
Jacek - they never dropped my ticket so I'm going to court.
James - the good issue is the crack pipes, to show that they
are not consistent on harm reduction. I had a cop say right
to my face that they could break pipes any time they wanted
because it was enabling drug use.
Jenn - do you guys agree that we don't meet with the police
until they actually do what they say they will do.
Jenn - I had a cop come up to me and said "I saw what you
wrote about me on facebook". someone is circulating what
we are writing about them around their office. It is concerning.
Jacek - this should be considered retaliation. they should not
be allowed to retaliate.
Jenn - the whole reason that I brought this up is for people's
safety. We should be prepared for retaliation.
Roland - it is the online equivalent of a trouble maker breaking
windows at a peaceful rally.
Street Market
James - I have some great photos of the market
Roland - I just got an email from Cael Hopwood that the address
was wrong on our insurance form. I'm hoping this is not a sign
of their willingness to deal with us honestly.
Ann - Pigeon park is a drinking centre now much more than before.
this is why we need the hose to move people around a bit.
James - carnegie may have the bayonette fitting that we need.
Ann - we have the Saturday meeting at VANDU at 2pm
Ann - 62 would be a good space for meetings, we lost the dodsons.
Its not ideal, but it would be a start.
Jacek - we could have an office no problem.
Ann - I find that wendy is softening because it would be space
for DNC.
Ann - the space is for housing, but there is no model built
and there is no plan that I know of
Vending Ticket campaign
James - what happens is that people get called into court
and then they are forced to sign something like a red zone
or something like that.
Ann - in the old days it made a little bit of sense if someone
had tuberculosis they should not spit where people walk because
you would track it into your house, but that is why it was ok
if you did it into the street where the gutters are.
General Meeting Discussion
Ann - we told Irwin that we postponed the August meeting, lets have it
at W2 on September 8th.
General Agreement
Informal closing
Thursday, 23 August 2012
Non-Board Meeting Minutes - August 23, 2012
No board meeting tonight
Everyone leaves at 6:30pm
Only people here were:
Jacek, Roland, Kelvin, Harold, DJ, James
Harold - there are a few peep holes in the Pantages fence. He did a so
so job of cleaning up.
It would be premature to call Sequel 138 dead, but it may be in
trouble. No new news.
Jacek - Orange Hall is fortifying. They are building those metal
barriers like army navy to
keep out the coming hordes.
Announcements
IAP, AFD, at Carnegie on September 5th, 2012 - last chance to register
as a residential school survivor
Women's housing march on September 15th, 2012
The Street Market opened up a bank account
Harold is leaving for several weeks and will be back on September 18th.
Everyone leaves at 6:30pm
Only people here were:
Jacek, Roland, Kelvin, Harold, DJ, James
Harold - there are a few peep holes in the Pantages fence. He did a so
so job of cleaning up.
It would be premature to call Sequel 138 dead, but it may be in
trouble. No new news.
Jacek - Orange Hall is fortifying. They are building those metal
barriers like army navy to
keep out the coming hordes.
Announcements
IAP, AFD, at Carnegie on September 5th, 2012 - last chance to register
as a residential school survivor
Women's housing march on September 15th, 2012
The Street Market opened up a bank account
Harold is leaving for several weeks and will be back on September 18th.
Thursday, 16 August 2012
DNC Board Meeting - August 16th, 2012
DNC Board Meeting - August 16th, 2012
Attendees - Jacek, Roland, Lu, James, DJ, Kelvin, Joe L, Herb
Agenda
Illicit Drinkers in Pigeon Park
Copwatch and Street Market
P.O. Box
Pantages
DJ does the opening
James - lot more people at pigeon park now, and they really resent the
street market on Sunday
Roland - that woman needed to have the cops called on her
Jacek - they were way more aggressive than in previous months. It could be
because 1U closed, and they are pushed out of the bus stop
Jacek - how about if we talk to them
Roland - VCH has told VANDU that if they had a partner, they have money for an
alcohol lounge. 1U pulled out of the project, they just need a partner
James - PHS has been doing one where they do a beer every hour or whatever. The
problem was that they were still going outside and driking listerine. So they
could not control it.
Jacek - I was at pigeon park, there were only three or four in the morning
James - they left on their own when we started the market, but now they have
no place to go. The only place they can go now is oppenheimer.
DJ - like that one girl, she was really belligerent. Near the washroom they get
bad too. I see women drinking rubbing alcohol in front of their kids. I'm an
alcoholic, but this gets really bad with some of them.
Jacek - do they have meetings?
Roland - Monday is their meeting at VANDU
Jacek - lets go there and talk to them and find out what is going on
DJ - what really screwed it up the most is that the church closes from
9am till 5pm.
Roland - they kick them out like a standard shelter now
DJ - yup, now they have to go drink in the park because of the way
they are treating
people at the shelter now.
James - I remember that a lot of the drunks would just crash there,
now they can't.
there are only a few that really go hard care and start fights. I know
a bunch of them.
James - a lot of it is how you handle it, you need the right person
doing security
Kelvin - we could bring it to VANDU, but we could also bring it to the
authorities
Jacek - we should only call cops if we really have to
Jacek - could we hire on of them as a liason?
DJ - it is too hard to be aggressive with them, because they are
already ready to fight
Roland - Rob facilitates the VANDU group, but that doesn't mean that
the pigeon park
group will listen to him
James - they do have some kind of togetherness, if you talk to them
the right way, we
might be able to get through. Now that they have no place to go, they
are digging in their
heels there. They used to leave.
Jacek - I bribed a couple of them by smokes, but we can't do much more
James - it is always the same people who start the fights if you
watch, so we can just
keep an eye on them
Copwatch/Market
------------------
Jacek - there was a problem with copwatch last sunday. At the end,
when we were trying
to clean up, two members of copwatch came in and were interfering with
the police. They
were claiming that the police were harassing, and they were not. I
tried to get terry
to stop from filming, but she would not. I always stop everyone from
filming at the park.
Terry was filming the cops helping a guy that had a seizure, and the
cops were going just
what they should, and copwatch was just interfering with them trying
to help the guy.
James - The cops were actually being helpful in getting people to
clean up, and copwatch
was interfering. At the time, you could not ask for two nicer cops.
Jacek - I went down there last sunday, and actually the park was clean
this time for
the first time in a long time, and it was due to the help from the cops.
James - ?
Jacek - next day I got a call from Jen - and she promised not to go to
the street market
again. I told her that she was welcome as long as she did not
interfere. She also wanted
copwatch to come to the volunteers meeting and I said no, that we did
not want this. We
had enough to do without asking more for the volunteers to do
copwatching as well. I will
make sure I bring it up at the Saturday meeting, in case the
volunteers want this.
James - we need to ask Ann to help with the copwatch issue. Jen
listens to Ann. I tried to
get Jen to calm down several times when she deals with the cops, but
she doesn't want to
listen.
Lu - she can go back home to the West end, and leave the problems behind
Joe - she does spend a lot of time at the women's centre
Lu - I agree with her principles, but her methods are wrong, she is too angry
DJ - I've seen it a bunch of times, she gets in the face of the cops
Lu - she interferes with the arrests, and twists the story her way
DJ - she ends up twisting the story and getting the details wrong, she
does not live
down here, she doesn't see what happens 24/7
Jacek - about 2 weeks ago we find out that not much was happening
against the vending
tickets
Roland - there was really no campaign. Susie Q came into VANDU, and
Louis had a court
date, VANDU went to PIVOT and we now have a strategy to reach out and
gather more
people into the constitutional challenge - Vivienne is going to help
doing outreach
DJ - also another thing at Lifeskills for vending tickets
Joe - it is quite busy on main and hastings
Jacek - I count the people often, the highest count I got was 40
vendors on the two blocks
James - on rock row, around the empress, they are starting to give out
tickets again
and trying to chase them off. When Jen and I did copwatch we used to
go up there, but now
they are bugging the ovaltine, and ovaltine can't pay rent because of
the people out there
Jacek - where are they going
James - yup they just push them east, farther east. Dave Hamm sets up
near BC housing.
Vendors are more save up there.
Roland - bumped into some kids in strathcona that were complaining
about the street vending.
It was sad to hear that they did not have any sympathy for other low
income people so close
to them
Joe - I love the DTES. Its got more heart than a whole city.
James - If I see some stuff and don't know if its stolen, why not...
if it will go bad, why
not buy it
Jacek - more important if you live on 610, how can you survive without
cheap stuff, you can't.
Herb - even without addiction the money doesn't last more then a few days.
Joe - its $25 for drum and papers, I can't even afford this once a
month. I'm back to butts.
There are 400 million people is India that no one knows about. There
are probably all moving
here.
Pantages
-----------------
Herb - have not looked inside once they built the fence
James - it is perfect now for a tent city, the trouble is no one would
see it with the fence
Herb - we just need to get pry bars and someone that wants to jump on
the grenade
DJ - I'll do it
Herb - what is going on with the mortgage?
Lu - the lean is due to the workers that were hired to pick up the bricks
James - a building's gonna go there
Roland - yes, but what building?
Lu - what is happening with the old drake lot?
Herb - it all depends on when the permit app went in. If it went in
before march, then
they can do anything they want.
Lu - is there any proof that it will be for low income housing?
James - there was supposed to be 5 or 6 properties down east by the
drake that were
supposed to be for low income
Herb - we still haven't been able to define what low income is, so the
city can basically
just tell us anything. This is something that we still haven't gotten
from the LAPP
Lu - where is the push for normal low income housing? Everything is
for supportive housing
to take away people's rights
Herb - exactly, if it is not covered by the RTA, they can just take
your stuff and you
can't do anything about it
Lu - I used to be a staff for raincity, and I was told to look the
other way if staff was
harassing tenants
Herb - I can speak about the LAPP more...
We had an Ab Sub comm meeting, and a few ad hoc meetings. What I've
hearing is that
we are getting a pile of information. They are gathering from BIAs as
well. It will
really water down the low income point of view. There will be so much
info, and it
will end up just helping developers. It is so stupid that at the end
of the day, we
are just going to end up choosing what color our roofs are, or what
kind of trees
we want to plant. It is so hard to keep up with all the crap.
James - it is always this way, the city is too powerful
Herb - they always throw up legality, and it is all bullcrap.
Vancouver isn't legal.
Anything after March or May new developments must have 30% welfare
rates, but we still
don't even know what was submitted before that date
Roland - really? Still?
Herb - yes, they throw information at us and we still don't have a
clear answer of
what came through the process
Another thing that is happening is...they've gotten us to pull out a
map and name
places that are important to us. My worry is that they've got us doing this crap
and they are going to use this as an excuse to push people out of the
good areas.
We are still just advisors and in the end, they can do anything they want
We are negotiating with a gun to our head. We are trying for nickles
and dimes, and
even these are getting taken away.
Kelvin - one of the things when the LAPP started was that it was supposed to be
open to the public, I don't know how the idea of the closed meeting started. We
need to try and get people out to the meetings in order to show force.
Roland - that is a good idea, we could show force at the meetings and
use this as
a bargaining tool
Kelvin - this way, the city can't say that it is just this sex worker,
or drug addict,
etc... but that it is the whole neighbourhood that will be watching
when they try
something. We need to try and get all the agencies to come out when
people are back
from vacations and get people out. We have lost so many homes to
development in the
last 10-15 years, where are we going to go? We as the LAPP committee
have come together
now we need to go back to our various agencies and bring them out.
Jacek - I've been telling everybody that market is perfect for telling
people about
stuff like this. We need to do outreach at the market. I bet if you
want an action,
people there will come if they know what is going on.
Herb - I can't do sunday, but we need people to come out.
Lu - basically nobody knows what the LAPP is doing
Jacek - even the paper. the information is very abstract, people don't
know what to
make of it.
James - too many people think that there is nothing they can do,
nothing is going
to change, and it is hard to convince people that they can change anything.
P.O. Box
------------------------
Roland - mail now goes to Tami's apt and CCAP office. I've had to wait
almost a month
for a lot of bank statements from CCAP, I also waited more than a
month to find out
that we had received the grant check from SFPIRG. We should have an
official mailing
address that can not be used by people for passive aggressive games.
James - doesn't the carnegie on the third floor receive mail for people?
Herb - why not just get it sent to the third floor
DJ - like 1U, people can get mail there
Kelvin - maybe take a look at Carnegie, and get back to us. Don't let
the matter drop.
General Meeting
------------------------------
Herb - next week we need to talk about the Sep meeting. I say have it on the
second saturday because of labor day weekend, and welfare and everything.
General agreement.
Kelvin - We are having a day of reaching out to residential school
survivors on Sept. 5th.
Attendees - Jacek, Roland, Lu, James, DJ, Kelvin, Joe L, Herb
Agenda
Illicit Drinkers in Pigeon Park
Copwatch and Street Market
P.O. Box
Pantages
DJ does the opening
James - lot more people at pigeon park now, and they really resent the
street market on Sunday
Roland - that woman needed to have the cops called on her
Jacek - they were way more aggressive than in previous months. It could be
because 1U closed, and they are pushed out of the bus stop
Jacek - how about if we talk to them
Roland - VCH has told VANDU that if they had a partner, they have money for an
alcohol lounge. 1U pulled out of the project, they just need a partner
James - PHS has been doing one where they do a beer every hour or whatever. The
problem was that they were still going outside and driking listerine. So they
could not control it.
Jacek - I was at pigeon park, there were only three or four in the morning
James - they left on their own when we started the market, but now they have
no place to go. The only place they can go now is oppenheimer.
DJ - like that one girl, she was really belligerent. Near the washroom they get
bad too. I see women drinking rubbing alcohol in front of their kids. I'm an
alcoholic, but this gets really bad with some of them.
Jacek - do they have meetings?
Roland - Monday is their meeting at VANDU
Jacek - lets go there and talk to them and find out what is going on
DJ - what really screwed it up the most is that the church closes from
9am till 5pm.
Roland - they kick them out like a standard shelter now
DJ - yup, now they have to go drink in the park because of the way
they are treating
people at the shelter now.
James - I remember that a lot of the drunks would just crash there,
now they can't.
there are only a few that really go hard care and start fights. I know
a bunch of them.
James - a lot of it is how you handle it, you need the right person
doing security
Kelvin - we could bring it to VANDU, but we could also bring it to the
authorities
Jacek - we should only call cops if we really have to
Jacek - could we hire on of them as a liason?
DJ - it is too hard to be aggressive with them, because they are
already ready to fight
Roland - Rob facilitates the VANDU group, but that doesn't mean that
the pigeon park
group will listen to him
James - they do have some kind of togetherness, if you talk to them
the right way, we
might be able to get through. Now that they have no place to go, they
are digging in their
heels there. They used to leave.
Jacek - I bribed a couple of them by smokes, but we can't do much more
James - it is always the same people who start the fights if you
watch, so we can just
keep an eye on them
Copwatch/Market
------------------
Jacek - there was a problem with copwatch last sunday. At the end,
when we were trying
to clean up, two members of copwatch came in and were interfering with
the police. They
were claiming that the police were harassing, and they were not. I
tried to get terry
to stop from filming, but she would not. I always stop everyone from
filming at the park.
Terry was filming the cops helping a guy that had a seizure, and the
cops were going just
what they should, and copwatch was just interfering with them trying
to help the guy.
James - The cops were actually being helpful in getting people to
clean up, and copwatch
was interfering. At the time, you could not ask for two nicer cops.
Jacek - I went down there last sunday, and actually the park was clean
this time for
the first time in a long time, and it was due to the help from the cops.
James - ?
Jacek - next day I got a call from Jen - and she promised not to go to
the street market
again. I told her that she was welcome as long as she did not
interfere. She also wanted
copwatch to come to the volunteers meeting and I said no, that we did
not want this. We
had enough to do without asking more for the volunteers to do
copwatching as well. I will
make sure I bring it up at the Saturday meeting, in case the
volunteers want this.
James - we need to ask Ann to help with the copwatch issue. Jen
listens to Ann. I tried to
get Jen to calm down several times when she deals with the cops, but
she doesn't want to
listen.
Lu - she can go back home to the West end, and leave the problems behind
Joe - she does spend a lot of time at the women's centre
Lu - I agree with her principles, but her methods are wrong, she is too angry
DJ - I've seen it a bunch of times, she gets in the face of the cops
Lu - she interferes with the arrests, and twists the story her way
DJ - she ends up twisting the story and getting the details wrong, she
does not live
down here, she doesn't see what happens 24/7
Jacek - about 2 weeks ago we find out that not much was happening
against the vending
tickets
Roland - there was really no campaign. Susie Q came into VANDU, and
Louis had a court
date, VANDU went to PIVOT and we now have a strategy to reach out and
gather more
people into the constitutional challenge - Vivienne is going to help
doing outreach
DJ - also another thing at Lifeskills for vending tickets
Joe - it is quite busy on main and hastings
Jacek - I count the people often, the highest count I got was 40
vendors on the two blocks
James - on rock row, around the empress, they are starting to give out
tickets again
and trying to chase them off. When Jen and I did copwatch we used to
go up there, but now
they are bugging the ovaltine, and ovaltine can't pay rent because of
the people out there
Jacek - where are they going
James - yup they just push them east, farther east. Dave Hamm sets up
near BC housing.
Vendors are more save up there.
Roland - bumped into some kids in strathcona that were complaining
about the street vending.
It was sad to hear that they did not have any sympathy for other low
income people so close
to them
Joe - I love the DTES. Its got more heart than a whole city.
James - If I see some stuff and don't know if its stolen, why not...
if it will go bad, why
not buy it
Jacek - more important if you live on 610, how can you survive without
cheap stuff, you can't.
Herb - even without addiction the money doesn't last more then a few days.
Joe - its $25 for drum and papers, I can't even afford this once a
month. I'm back to butts.
There are 400 million people is India that no one knows about. There
are probably all moving
here.
Pantages
-----------------
Herb - have not looked inside once they built the fence
James - it is perfect now for a tent city, the trouble is no one would
see it with the fence
Herb - we just need to get pry bars and someone that wants to jump on
the grenade
DJ - I'll do it
Herb - what is going on with the mortgage?
Lu - the lean is due to the workers that were hired to pick up the bricks
James - a building's gonna go there
Roland - yes, but what building?
Lu - what is happening with the old drake lot?
Herb - it all depends on when the permit app went in. If it went in
before march, then
they can do anything they want.
Lu - is there any proof that it will be for low income housing?
James - there was supposed to be 5 or 6 properties down east by the
drake that were
supposed to be for low income
Herb - we still haven't been able to define what low income is, so the
city can basically
just tell us anything. This is something that we still haven't gotten
from the LAPP
Lu - where is the push for normal low income housing? Everything is
for supportive housing
to take away people's rights
Herb - exactly, if it is not covered by the RTA, they can just take
your stuff and you
can't do anything about it
Lu - I used to be a staff for raincity, and I was told to look the
other way if staff was
harassing tenants
Herb - I can speak about the LAPP more...
We had an Ab Sub comm meeting, and a few ad hoc meetings. What I've
hearing is that
we are getting a pile of information. They are gathering from BIAs as
well. It will
really water down the low income point of view. There will be so much
info, and it
will end up just helping developers. It is so stupid that at the end
of the day, we
are just going to end up choosing what color our roofs are, or what
kind of trees
we want to plant. It is so hard to keep up with all the crap.
James - it is always this way, the city is too powerful
Herb - they always throw up legality, and it is all bullcrap.
Vancouver isn't legal.
Anything after March or May new developments must have 30% welfare
rates, but we still
don't even know what was submitted before that date
Roland - really? Still?
Herb - yes, they throw information at us and we still don't have a
clear answer of
what came through the process
Another thing that is happening is...they've gotten us to pull out a
map and name
places that are important to us. My worry is that they've got us doing this crap
and they are going to use this as an excuse to push people out of the
good areas.
We are still just advisors and in the end, they can do anything they want
We are negotiating with a gun to our head. We are trying for nickles
and dimes, and
even these are getting taken away.
Kelvin - one of the things when the LAPP started was that it was supposed to be
open to the public, I don't know how the idea of the closed meeting started. We
need to try and get people out to the meetings in order to show force.
Roland - that is a good idea, we could show force at the meetings and
use this as
a bargaining tool
Kelvin - this way, the city can't say that it is just this sex worker,
or drug addict,
etc... but that it is the whole neighbourhood that will be watching
when they try
something. We need to try and get all the agencies to come out when
people are back
from vacations and get people out. We have lost so many homes to
development in the
last 10-15 years, where are we going to go? We as the LAPP committee
have come together
now we need to go back to our various agencies and bring them out.
Jacek - I've been telling everybody that market is perfect for telling
people about
stuff like this. We need to do outreach at the market. I bet if you
want an action,
people there will come if they know what is going on.
Herb - I can't do sunday, but we need people to come out.
Lu - basically nobody knows what the LAPP is doing
Jacek - even the paper. the information is very abstract, people don't
know what to
make of it.
James - too many people think that there is nothing they can do,
nothing is going
to change, and it is hard to convince people that they can change anything.
P.O. Box
------------------------
Roland - mail now goes to Tami's apt and CCAP office. I've had to wait
almost a month
for a lot of bank statements from CCAP, I also waited more than a
month to find out
that we had received the grant check from SFPIRG. We should have an
official mailing
address that can not be used by people for passive aggressive games.
James - doesn't the carnegie on the third floor receive mail for people?
Herb - why not just get it sent to the third floor
DJ - like 1U, people can get mail there
Kelvin - maybe take a look at Carnegie, and get back to us. Don't let
the matter drop.
General Meeting
------------------------------
Herb - next week we need to talk about the Sep meeting. I say have it on the
second saturday because of labor day weekend, and welfare and everything.
General agreement.
Kelvin - We are having a day of reaching out to residential school
survivors on Sept. 5th.
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